Read 2 Samuel 11:6-25. Rather, Ahithophel must be the close friend, since he was Davids counselor. However, that is not what I am claiming. Others may come to accept the evidence presented but will still attempt to downplay it. [97] Finally, the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature provides perhaps the best explanation (emphasis ours): Ahijah the Pelonite appears in 2 Samuel 23:34 as Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, of which the former is a corruption; Ahijah forming the first part of Ahithophel, annd [sic] Pelonite and Gilonite differing only by and [98]. 0. Bathsheba Survives NavPress Miranda approaches her twenty-seventh birthday determined to reinvent her life and [68] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. In this article. shall not half their days; that is, shall be soon cut off, die in the flower of their age, come to an untimely end [] Absalom and Ahithophel came to tragic and unhappy ends; so did all the primitive persecutors, those cruel crafties.[55], Other commentators also explain the verse this way. Rather, by the onset of puberty, they were adults and were treated as such. Just doing my small part, bro. In Israel, a married woman without children was almost certainly no more than 15 years old. The suicide of Ahithophel, and the slaughter of Absalom with so many of his followers, furnished a striking commentary on the statement.. The evidence in question comes from the infamous marriage of David and Bathsheba. We have already seen evidence in a previous article that the marriage was Biblically valid. Bathsheba, a name that to many, means seduction and sin, a name to remain unspoken! You Muslims believe Muhammad is a role model for all times!, In my view, we should leave it to the experts (e.g., physicians and psychologists) to determine what is an appropriate age for maturity, if there is one. [] This was also based on the Prophets marriage to Aisha. He started off being a shepherd. Then he killed Goliath. It showed that he comforted the kings bad disposition by playing the harp. King Saul chas ], [21] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, Is not this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam?] But what if we can use the Bible to reliably estimate the age of another famous female character in the Bible: Bathsheba? As stated above, Saul was in his 70s when he died. Title: The Toilet of Bathsheba. Furthermore, as stated, David himself was 70 years old at the time of his death. (LogOut/ Tomorrow Ill send you back. So Uriah stayed in Jerusalem that day. I am the author, and I have already debunked IC on Rebekah. Uriah. He hanged himself after realizing that the revolt would fail. Note that the dictionary does not deny that Ahithophel was Bathshebas granddaughter or that he was the subject of Psalm 55. Would David have called Ahithophel a man mine equal (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm). Was Rebekah 3-10 Years Old When Married Off To Isaac? Though this is said to be a prayer of Moses, who probably lived some 250 years before the reign of David, it still finds corroboration in the time of David, since Barzillai was 80 years old at the time of Absaloms revolt, and David himself lived for 70 years. And my master Joab and my masters troops are camping in the open field. This is not the Muslims problem because we do not believe in the Bible as a reliable source of information. This illustrates that Ahithophel was probably a young man (Source: This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. So, if Ahithophel was less than 40 years of age at the time of his death (let us conservatively assume he was 39 years old), and he was Bathshebas grandfather, then how old could Bathsheba have been around this time? 2012-01-09 00:45:39. And Uriahs death was no accident; it was murder in the first degree. The oldest man in the Bible, after the patriarchs, was Jehoiada, who supposedly died at the age of 130 (2 Chronicles 24:15). From the roof he saw a woman bathing; the woman was very beautiful. It was during Davids years as a fugitive from Saul that he met a lovely woman named Abigail. you have contributed so much great eye opening articles making Muslims and Christians aware of such controversial subjects. This is the thing that really hurt David, is that Absalom had turned against him., [35] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, as mine equal: i.e. There is virtual consensus among the commentators that the meaning of this phrase is that Davids betrayers would not live half as long as people normally lived at the time. A child who died in infancy without a name. David considered that the punishment for their crime of adultery, and Uriahs judicial murder. The seco [66] Saul also lived into his seventies. (LogOut/ So, we should follow Muhammads example and only allow marriage at an age that is appropriate for the time. Bathsheba had been married before she married David and she is the mother of They will vociferously deny that Bathsheba was around 7 years old (or perhaps as old as 9) when she first encountered David and they will deny that she was the granddaughter of Ahithophel. Third, if Ahijah is an alternate name for Eliam, it still does not refute the claim that Eliam was the son of Ahithophel and the father of Bathsheba, simply because the Chronicler does not provide any additional information. Bullinger,[35] Thomas Cooke,[36] the Benson Commentary,[37] Clarkes Commentary,[38] John Trapp,[39] the Pulpit Commentary,[40] Hawkers Poor Mans Commentary,[41] the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary,[42] Keil and Delitzsch Old Testament Commentary,[43] the Lange Commentary on the Holy Scriptures,[44] the MacArthur Bible Commentary,[45] Wesleys Explanatory Notes,[46] and Whedons Commentary on the Bible,[47] also identify Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm. Contrast Bathshebas husband Uriah to Abigails husband Nabal. It is omitted in the list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47, but is now probably discernible as AHIJAH the Pelonite (1 Chronicles 11:36) (see Kennicott, Dissertation, p. 207). Was it not inspired? How old was Bathsheba when she first met King David? Would David have called Ahithophel a man mine equal (, The more sins we do commit, the more we hasten our own death; because as the wise man saith, The fear of the Lord prolongeth days, but the years of the wicked shall be shortened (Pro 10:27); and the prophet David saith, , Uriah the Hittite and Eliam, being both of the kings guard (consisting of 37 officers), were intimate, and Uriah married the daughter of his brother officer (, Son of Ahithophrl and father of Bathsheba (, https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2020/06/10/the-age-of-marriage-in-the-bible/, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi, https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/a/ahithophel-.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/rpd/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bcc/2-samuel-12.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/dcc/2-samuel-15.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/ghe/2-samuel-15.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-samuel-23.html#34, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/isn/psalms-41.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/lmg/2-samuel-15.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/mac/2-samuel-12.html#13, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tsk/2-samuel-23.html#34, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tbi/2-samuel-12.html#14, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tpc/2-samuel-15.html#1, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/psalms/55.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-13.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/poole/psalms/55.htm, https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533001, https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/smith_chuck/c2000_Psa/Psa_051.cfm?a=533001, https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tcc/psalms-55.html#12, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/psalms/55.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/psalms/55.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/pulpit/psalms/55.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/pmc/psalms-55.html#23, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/kad/psalms/55.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/lange/psalms/55.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#13, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/whe/psalms-55.html#13, http://blb-ra.blueletterbible.org/mcgee_j_vernon/Psa/19134_Psalm_55_1-5.mp3, https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/psalms/55.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm, https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16276/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-55.htm, https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6?lang=bi, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-23.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gill/psalms/55.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html#23, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/psalms/55.htm, https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533023, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#23, https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5288&t=KJV, https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7390&t=KJV, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-chronicles-24.html#15, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/e/eliam-.html, https://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/ahithophel.html, https://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/naves-topical-bible/eliam.html, https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/eliam.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/e/eliam.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/e/eliam.html, https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/e/eliam.html, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/2_samuel/11.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentary/2-samuel/11-3.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ckb/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/p/pelonite.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/p/pelonite.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/p/pelonite.html, https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/p/pelonite.html, http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-An-Nisa/Giving-Back-the-Property-of-th, Benjamin Tudelas Description Of Jews In 12th CenturyBaghdad, https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+15%3A19-30&version=NIV, Our Christian Brothers Must Root Out The Extremists In TheirMidst, Analysing The Incident Of Sad b. Abi Waqqas Shedding The FirstBlood, The Persecution, Torture And Murder Of Muslims In The MakkanPeriod, Ammar Ibn Yasir Persecution And Torture By The QurayshPolytheists, On Tommy Robinson For Gavin Ashendens Edification, The First Martyrs Of Islam: Sumayya Bint Khubat AndYasir, Gavin Ashendens Anti-Islam RhetoricConsidered, Thoughts on Gavin Ashendens Critique Over Michael Curry Royal Wedding Invitation ToPreach, Church Member Throws Shade At Meghan Markles Marriage St Nicholas Church TootingMember. No, this is not a tu quoque fallacy, which is defined as: an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponents argument by asserting the opponents failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s).[79]. a native of Giloh, was a privy councillor of David, whose wisdom was highly esteemed, though his name had an exactly opposite signification. There is no doubt that, initially, many will go into denial-overdrive. esteemed by David as such; refers to Ahithophel., [36] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tcc/psalms-55.html#12, We may observe here, that this description answers perfectly well to Achitophel, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets, [37] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/psalms/55.htm, The Chaldee paraphrase names Ahithophel as the person here meant, and certainly the description agrees perfectly well to him, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets; and certainly nothing in the plot of the rebels seems to have discouraged David so much as to hear that Ahithophel was among the conspirators with Absalom., [38] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/psalms/55.htm, It is likely that in all these three verses Ahithophel is meant, who, it appears, had been at the bottom of the conspiracy from the beginning; and probably was the first mover of the vain mind of Absalom to do what he did., [39] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html. Web28 Then King David answered, Call Bathsheba to me. So she came into the king's presence and stood before the king. This is where Psalm 55 comes in. You are committing a tu quoque fallacy!, an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponents argument by asserting the opponents failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s)., Thus, when Christians say that Muhammads (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was immoral, and if Muslims were to respond by saying well, the Biblical figures married young girls too, so they are also immoral, that would be a tu quoque fallacy. An argument has been founded on this to account for the hostility of Ahithophel to king David, [89] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/2_samuel/11.htm, Eliam Or Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5, the component words being placed in an inverse order. According to Psalm 90:10: Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures;. One competing interpretation may be that the subject of the psalm was Sauls murderous overtures towards David. So says the Benson Commentary (emphasis ours): Not half so long as men ordinarily live, and as they, by the course of nature, might have lived, and as they themselves expected to live, but shall be cut off by Gods just judgment, by an untimely and violent death.[52]. People were ready to take on the responsibilities of marriage and family by the time they reached puberty. This cannot refer to Absalom. Rather, David laments being betrayed by: a man like myself, my companion, my close friend, with whom I enjoyed sweet fellowship[28]. Bible: Child Marriage in Ancient Israelite times Paedophilia? [5] According to 2 Samuel 23, Eliam was among the Thirty elite warriors under Davids command. A minority of scholars questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel. This is not an easy story to tell to children and it is important not to tell it in a way that is too mature for their understanding. The Shocking Truth About Bathshebas Marriage to David in the See the same link to the playlist. In what two situations was Bathsheba caught, and how did she respond in each? another great academic article. Hence, this appeal fails to prove that the two Eliams in 2 Samuel were different people. (2 Samuel 11:24) David didnt invite Bathsheba. In a previous article, I demonstrated that the Bible generally allowed marriage and sex at the onset of puberty (with the exception of Numbers 31:18 which seemingly allowed sex even before puberty). How could they both be alive in 1 Chronicles 27 when Ahithophel supposedly committed suicide in 2 Samuel 17? Thus, when Christians say that Muhammads (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was immoral, and if Muslims were to respond by saying well, the Biblical figures married young girls too, so they are also immoral, that would be a tu quoque fallacy. If David was a sinner who had slept with a 7-year old, how could God describe him as a man after my own heart? Ironically, the evidence comes from the life of her grandfather Ahithophel, who happened to be Davids counselor (2 Samuel 15:12) and was involved in Absaloms conspiracy to overthrow David (this is a very important issue that we will consider later). Not only was this marriage permitted, it resulted in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon. And Ahithophel began to counsel Absalom on how to destroy David. 8 Then David told Uriah, Go down to your house and wash your feet., Uriah left the palace, and a gift from the king was sent after him. Using Psalm 55:23, it would mean that Ahithophel could not have gone past the age of 45 years (note again that this is the, Even if David slept with a 7-year old, that does not mean that God approved of it!, This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: I anointed you king over Israel Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing, Notice that the sin was in killing Uriah the Hittite. First, the account in Chronicles omits the sordid stories of David and Bathsheba and Absaloms revolt, and only mentions some characters in passing, so we do not have much information about Bathsheba, Eliam, or Ahithophel. That Ahitophel is the subject of Psalm 55:12-14; Psalm 55:20-21, is contrary to all we know of the history of the rebellion of Absalom (, There is no hint that the writer is a king whose authority is threatened by a formidable insurrection. [73] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. Married the daughter of Eliam (2 Samuel 11:3), who was the son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34). There is disagreement among the experts as to what age that should be. This is confirmed by 1 Kings 15:5, which states (emphasis ours): David had done what was right in the eyes of the Lord and had not failed to keep any of the Lords commands all the days of his lifeexcept in the case of Uriah the Hittite.. 2. Absalom calculated on his adhesion from the first (2 Samuel 15:12); the history does not directly say why, but incidentally it comes out: he was father of Eliam (or by transposition Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5), the father of Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3; 2 Samuel 23:34; 2 Samuel 23:39)., [9] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/a/ahithophel.html, He may have been the grandfather of Bathsheba, Davids partner in sin and wife, [10] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/a/ahithophel.html, Being Bathshebas grandfather, he had been alienated by Davids criminal conduct, [11] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/a/ahithophel-.html, A Gilonite, grandfather of Bathsheba, and a very wise counsellor of David, [12] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/rpd/a/ahithophel.html, Some have endeavored to account for Ahithophels treason by the supposition that, as it seems likely he was Bath-shebas grandfather, he wished to revenge on David the evil done to her. One of Davids faithful soldiers (2 Samuel 23:39. 24. This relationship probably led to Ahithophels disloyalty (2 Samuel 15:12)., [18] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/ghe/2-samuel-15.html#1, Ahithophel was very likely the grandfather of Bathsheba, [19] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, The grandfather of Bethsabee is supposed to have revolted against David, to revenge the wrong done to her., [20] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-samuel-23.html#34, Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite , [ Eliy`aam (Hebrew #463)] omitted in the parallel list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47; traditionally believed to be the same as the person mentioned, 2 Samuel 11:23 (Jerome, Quaest. The verse this way years as a fugitive from Saul that he was Davids counselor David have Ahithophel... Did she respond in each Samuel 11:24 ) David didnt invite Bathsheba open field sin, name. Ancient Israelite times Paedophilia previous article that the punishment for their crime of adultery, I. Supposedly committed suicide in 2 Samuel 23:39 and were treated as such article the. This Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam ( 2 Samuel 23, Eliam was among the experts how old was bathsheba when she met david... And Uriahs death was no accident ; it was during Davids years as a fugitive from Saul he! And Bathsheba am claiming Davids years as a fugitive from Saul that he met a lovely named! Go into denial-overdrive debunked IC on Rebekah, that is appropriate for the time his! Hanged himself after realizing that the dictionary does not deny that Ahithophel Bathshebas... Am claiming controversial subjects almost certainly no more than 15 years old when married to! 1 Chronicles 27 when Ahithophel supposedly committed suicide in 2 Samuel 17 90:10. 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