Announcements. Why you gotta be so mean? Taylor Swift. I adhere to the never-say-never adage but cant even remotely imagine EVER being involved with a church again. He has disqualified himself from the office of pastor, he forfeited his right to that sacred office, he used and abused those he should have been accountable to, he betrayed the trust of his followers, he squandered their tithes and offerings. In our services, our ministries, our music-in everything we do at Harvest, our passion and focus are to bring God glory through His Son Jesus Christ. The elders would tell people to leave quietly in order to *protect their family. ), Law Prof: If we just got back to that model, the one the early church leaders generally followed . All three of those aspects are absent from the biblical directives in providing care and oversight to Gods children. We celebrated Gods blessing of 100 church plants in just 14 years in 2014. We know these things intrinsically by knowing the people. but i have gained a newfound joy in being a member of the human race. It sounds more like men puffing up their status among the brothers . You were part of promoting that brand, right? Ive never felt a humbling that felt particularly good, at least short-term. His entire enterprise is being exposed as a fraud and a ripoff of the naive, yet he faces no repercussions inflicting so much spiritual, emotional and financial abuse. Conversational-type sermons, contemporary worship music, come-as-you-are. I know Jesus is real and know He loves me, but too much of the Bible and Jesus name got mixed up with the abuse going on to my children, my wife, my friends and me. Relgious leaders more than ANY other human leader needs to have checks and balance, and bright lights shown on them, since they claim they are preaching the truth.. For a son dishonors his father, a daughter rises up against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a mans enemies are the members of his own household. I think these gifts are operating as God intended, outside of the systems weve designed and created. Now this is a dichotomy because we are speaking about faith because we cannot know all facts of God, but what is done on this earth is grounded in facts and with witnesses. All our campuses gathered together for three consecutive Saturdays of the summer Ravinia style. All of the above is not an option, but it seems hard to pick one over any other. So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? I understand your point and the historical information. After reading each post on this matter, I cannot find a single one that brings dishonor to the Lord Jesus. Fayetteville, AR 72703. Truth the WHOLE truth is the only antidote. And she is asking everyone to back off. In the entire New Testament, the word only turns up once in the singular, 4th in a list of 5 useful gifts or roles (not official offices, near as I can tell) in Ephesians 4. We find out that the pastor is living in a $2 million house, he said. Neither Dean Butters nor I wanted our letters published. He did this knowing that I was qualified for neither. Dallas, however, prefers a different medium film. TS00: And perhaps we should remember that Jesus did not come to set up authoritative institutions, but to gather his individual lost sheep. I think the issue of the type of leadership structure is much less important than the character of the people running the show. But I still hold to my opinions, and consider them at least worthy of consideration for those who look at this mess and wonder how we got here. Indeed. We were in a panic, didnt have enough hands to scramble around and cover all their eyes, which, up to this point, had been quite innocent. Maybe you missed the point of her post. Agreed; I cant imagine that Paul would be pleased with what is happening. IMO, most people attend church to replace the lost family and community modern society has sacrificed. AND PREACHER-MAN INFLICTED THAT ON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS? Given His choice of companionship last time He was here, your friend from that Bible study might be shocked. Noevangelical: As this dumpster fire continues to grow, how could anyone with a scintilla of Christianity continue to support this ministry? Harvest needs to close because there as a beacon to the rest of the world as to what happens when talent trumps the grace of God so feeely given to us in repentance and a broken heart. Here are four things you should know about The Chosen: Photo courtesy: VidAngel. The problem with deception is that you dont know you are deceived because you are deceived. its, like, the top christianese word that means so many different abstract things (depending on whos using the it) that it sort of means nothing anymore. You should repent and make reparations where necessary. Someone should also dig into the incident regarding the video of Mel Gibsons Passion of the Christ that was shown to HCA ELEMENTARY school children without any warning or notice to parents. I am not on Twitter myself, but I have been following others, like you. there was no way i could see that movie, even as a full-fledged crusty, jaded adult. blameless They tolerate whatever they must (loud music, annoying demands for money, sermons that go in one ear and out the other) in order to establish a community of friends and support in a cold world in which family is often spread across the continent. Nice list. Harvest Bible Chapel issued a statement today: Pastor James MacDonald came upon a sleeping bear while walking in the back yard of his modest home today. ex HCA Staff: . Ishy: These churches treat women so badly, but promise men all sorts of things, Matt Chandler says I preach to men. He calls female believers at TVC our girls while hes ensnares them with the beauty of complementarity., NJ: able to teach Study all 66 books of the Bible at Dallas Theological Seminary. This verse came to mind: For it is the time for the judgment to have begun from the house of God; and if from us first, what will be the outcome of those disobeying the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17) The business-first model that seems so pervasive and knocks down just about any scrutiny until there is videotaped evidence would seem to fit somewhere in that spectrum, no? If anything, out of all the ashes has come a humbling of my spirit. Im not going to say that to you. So, so much we dont know. Consider the following Scriptures: And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors [POIMEN] and teachers (Ephesians 4:11). You are loved!. January 19, 2016 Subscribe to Podcast What's in this session? I just found out about it a few minutes ago. Thats why the early church had congregational governance, rather than elder rule polity the Body of Christ had a say in who the church leaders were. In January, Gateway held a Pastors School Seminar inside Driscolls church that was all about Church Governance. I suppose you would doubt your own mother? I was asked. Thanks for the reply. Authoritarianism can still be the order of the day in any setting of any size. Law Prof: Years later, the church long ago destroyed by heavy abuse and the former members scattered, a number of them atheists today, that drama pastor is now into the New Age. Ive had 58 years to observe her fruit, and, while not perfect, she has proven generally consistent and trustworthy. I suspect, from many comments of those involved, that there was an actual mafia-like aspect of JMacs control. Dallas Jenkins is the Producer and Director of the largest crowd-funded media project of all-time, a multi-season series about the life of Christ entitled The Chosen. (GOO GOO GA JOOB!)). . Rather, it appears that the early church looked much more Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Anglican than low-church protestant. TS00: I dont know, if one follows Twitter, there are several who have commented that attended church with JMac in his youth, and they have nothing positive to say about him or his character from way back. You dont have to watch a person for very long to discern whether that person is a grace filled believer or not. Born in Dallas and growing up in Little Rock, . And we are in the Lent season. holding fast the faithful word hospitable They taught 200 pastors how to create a stronger choke-hold on their church so that no one can wrestle it away from them. As for your dig at anonymous people, you are hoping to do the same thing. Someone should also dig into the incident regarding the video of Mel Gibsons Passion of the Christ that was shown to HCA ELEMENTARY school children without any warning or notice to parents in the first year of the schools history during Holy Week. Yowzers, you have me stumped. Dallas Jenkins: It was given to the elders two months ago. I wish that the decision to be a public figure in this scandal was left to the individual, not to third parties. It is long past time Jenkins spoke up. God reaches out to us, one on one, and he will continue to administer his healing balm to your soul. Association of Related Churches I figure whenever Paul was speaking to us through Scripture, he was drawing from his personal knowledge of the Kingdom of God rather than what he thought about it. Nothing to be ashamed of. Their churches were of human origin, they failed. The pastor was grooming me to be an elder, made hints that I could take over for him someday. Posted in Theology | Tagged Alpha and Omega, Comparing Myself to Others, Dallas Jenkins, Gavin Stone, God's Sovereignty, God's Will Plan and Priorities, Harvest Bible Chapel, Vertical Church Films | 7 Comments. Fred Adams earnings $92,434 quite the busy Harvest CFO, http://www.wsop.com/players/profile/?playerid=72494 As Law Prof noted, JMac is not your usual run-of-the-mill preacher he had an international stage he had thousands of followers he failed you, HBC, and the church at large he has disqualified himself from ministry. In a Good Way. What is an egalitarian group to do I when bullies take over? The imprisoned Colonel, intelligent, patriotic, disciplined and well-meaning, oversees the building of a bridge far superior to anything his captors could have dreamed of. Man if you are looking for a physical church to be perfected and wholly sanctified, by mere men, you will be disalusioned. Dallas, you helped run an organization that prospered because of its public image which you helped create. Theres no edit function so it couldnt later be deleted. Craig French: Thanks for confirming the authenticity of the content, Dallas. In my experience, the congregation is generous with gifts to make up any shortcoming. Once credibility is lost, it is hard to regain. The one time we visited Spain and France and visited (maybe 4 or 5) churches from about 1200 CE up to Notre Dame in Paris, there were (especially in Spain) tons of silver and gold used on private family altars scattered all around the floor of the more recent cathedrals, to the point that there wasnt really room for many actual worshippers. Harvest Christian Fellowship is a megachurch in Riverside, California. Harvest Bible Chapel We're here to glorify God through the fulfillment of the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20). Be wary of falling into the trappings you so boldly wish expose. In case this has escaped your awareness, most folks on TWW have experienced abuse in churches. The entire video was not shown just the scourging of Christ, but it was enough to act as a wildfire of shock, dismay, and for some of the youngest, I would go so far as to say trauma. Here is a short article describing the NT words used for the offices: I suppose those are the sort of preachers Jesus had in mind when He said: You guys are tempting me to mount my soap box! Every weekend we open the word of God and study the truth He has revealed to us. This has been going on now for 12 years. I rather doubt that they were able to get it right in the end. If you go here you can see them listed in the browser search https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+chosen+producers+james+macdonald&t=ffsb&ia=web but when you click on the link you can see that Jenkins had the producers list altered to remove those names and place all new producers (the money) except for himself on the website. What followed, over the course of the remaining time I/we were there at the school and at the church in Elgin, attests to exactly what has been revealed about HBC, almost to a tee, and led to my first-hand interactions with Rick Donald, Fred Adams, and a few select others. 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